Your Baby's Position Matters: When to Check, Ways to Help Baby Turn, & Surrendering the Outcome to God
Hey friend! Have you been wondering about your baby's position? Maybe you heard "breech" at an ultrasound and your heart skipped a beat? Today I'm sharing my conversation with Dr. Marrow from Full Circle Women's Care about when baby's position actually matters, natural ways to encourage optimal positioning, and—most importantly—how to surrender our birth plans to God's perfect will. Whether you're facing a breech baby or just want to be prepared, this conversation offers both practical wisdom and faith-filled encouragement.
🎧 Listen to the Episode
When Your Baby's Position Really Matters
One of the first things Dr. Marrow clarified that brought me so much peace? Your baby's position at 20 weeks means absolutely nothing!
"In the first and second trimester, it's a swimming pool," Dr. Marrow explained. "Baby has full lay of the land and is free to move around as it desires."
So mama, if you're reading this at 24 weeks worried about a breech baby—take a deep breath. Your little one has plenty of time and space to flip!
The Timeline That Actually Matters
Dr. Marrow shared the timeline that OB-GYNs follow:
32 weeks: Start taking interest in baby's position
35-36 weeks: Time for hands-on evaluation
36 weeks: Need to know position definitively (ultrasound or belly mapping)
37 weeks: Plans for ECV if baby is breech
I love that there's a clear timeline here—it takes the guesswork out of when to start paying attention!
Natural Ways to Help Baby Find the Optimal Position
When we discover baby isn't head-down or is in a less-than-ideal position, Dr. Marrow recommends starting with a holistic approach. Here's what she suggests:
For Breech Babies:
Chiropractic care to realign the pelvis
Acupuncture and moxibustion (shown to have benefits!)
Spinning Babies techniques:
Forward-leaning inversion
Side-lying release
Rebozo sifting
For Posterior (Sunny-Side Up) Babies:
The Miles Circuit (three positions):
Open-knee chest position
Left lateral lying
Asymmetrical movement (stairs or curb walking)
Now, I have to be honest with you—these positions aren't comfortable! As I told Dr. Marrow, "If you're doing it correctly, it's kind of uncomfortable." But remember, we're creating space for baby to move. It's worth the temporary discomfort!
Understanding ECVs: When Natural Methods Aren't Enough
An External Cephalic Version (ECV) is when your provider manually turns your baby from the outside. Dr. Marrow shared that the success rate is between 50-60%, with better outcomes for:
Moms who've had babies before
Smaller babies
Posterior placentas
Lower maternal BMI
Transverse babies (they're already halfway there!)
The Reality of the Procedure
Let me be real with you—ECVs are intense. Dr. Marrow was beautifully honest about this: "This is not a 32-second contraction that you can then have a five-minute break. This is constant activity for several minutes on your abdomen."
But here's what I love—she also said, "There's no reward for suffering." If you need an epidural for the procedure, that doesn't mean you can't have an unmedicated birth later!
Why Most Providers Recommend C-Sections for Breech Babies
This was fascinating to learn. Until 2002, vaginal breech deliveries were more common. But a large study showed a fourfold increase in poor outcomes with vaginal breech deliveries compared to cesarean deliveries.
Dr. Marrow's advice? "If a provider tells you they're not comfortable doing something, they mean that." This isn't the time to show up in labor hoping for the best. Trust your provider's expertise and make a plan together.
The Beauty of Gentle Cesareans
Y'all, this part made my heart so happy! If you do need a cesarean, it can still be a beautiful, sacred experience. Dr. Marrow's practice offers:
Dimmed lights with just the surgical spotlight
Your own music playlist (yes, your worship music!)
Clear drapes for first looks
Delayed cord clamping
Immediate skin-to-skin
Breastfeeding in the OR
Doula support in the operating room
Dr. Marrow's Personal Story: From Fear to Redemption
What touched me most was Dr. Marrow's vulnerability in sharing her own birth journey. Despite being an OB-GYN who had delivered hundreds of babies, she carried significant birth fear into her first delivery. After an epidural at 2cm and eventual cesarean, she knew something had to change for baby number two.
With the support of doulas and hypnobirthing preparation, she achieved a successful VBAC with her second (bigger!) baby. Her transformation reminds us that preparation matters more than perfection.
📖 Faith-Filled Wisdom for Your Birth
"When you do everything that you can and your baby is still breech or OP or whatever, that is not failure. That is a change of plans and that's okay. Birth is beautiful regardless of the route." - Dr. Marrow
This echoes what I often share with my doula clients: We get to steward what we can control—our preparation, our mindset, our spiritual readiness—but we cannot control outcomes. And that's where faith comes in.
🙏 A Prayer for You on Your Journey
Dear Lord,
We come before You with hearts that desire healthy, safe deliveries for our babies. For every mama reading this who's concerned about her baby's position, I pray Your peace that surpasses all understanding would guard her heart and mind.
Give her wisdom to know when to act and when to wait. Guide her to the right providers and support team. If natural methods are needed, give her strength and perseverance. If medical intervention becomes necessary, surround her with Your presence and capable hands.
Most of all, Lord, help her remember that You knit this baby together in her womb. You know every detail of this birth story before it unfolds. Help her hold her plans loosely and Your promises tightly.
We trust You with our babies, our bodies, and our birth stories. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Take Action, Then Trust
Friend, if you're navigating concerns about your baby's position, here's what I want you to do:
Don't panic if you're before 32 weeks—baby has time!
Talk to your provider about their comfort with ECVs and their approach to cesareans
Consider trying natural positioning techniques (with your provider's approval)
Prepare your heart for whatever path your birth story takes
Remember: Your worth is not tied to your birth outcome
Birth is beautiful regardless of the route, and your baby will be in your arms either way. That's what truly matters.
📎Resources & Links Mentioned
📋 Miles Circuit handout for optimal positioning
👶 Spinning Babies Technique - A program designed to help create room for a breech baby to find a more optimal position
✨ Christian Mama Birth Prep Library - Free birth prep tools, worship playlists & more
💕 Work with Me 1:1 – Virtual Doula Support & Schedule a Private Coaching Call
✝️ Online Christian Childbirth Education - Explore my complete birth preparation self-paced course
📞 Free 15-Minute Discovery Call: Schedule your no-obligation consultation with me today! I would LOVE to connect with you.
📣 Let’s Stay Connected
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Hit subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Text a friend and share the show with a fellow mama.
Grab your free birth prep tools at the Christian Mama Birth Prep Library.
Meet Your Host —
Natalie is a certified birth doula and childbirth educator in Jacksonville, FL. She's trained through DONA International, certified as a Body Ready Method Pro, and an advanced VBAC doula. Through Faith Over Fear Birth, she equips Christian women to experience peaceful, faith-filled births through both virtual and in-person support.
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📄 Full Episode Transcript
Natalie: Hi, friend, and welcome back to the podcast. I am thrilled to have Dr. Marrow with us today. She's a board-certified OB-GYN, VBAC mom of two, and practices at Full Circle Women's Care—my favorite OB-GYN practice here in Jacksonville, Florida. We're talking about a topic that can feel stressful for many moms: fetal malposition. We'll cover ways to help baby get into an optimal position for a vaginal birth, what happens if baby is breech or transverse, and procedures like ECV to turn baby head down. Marrow, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dr. Marrow: Thank you so much for having me, Natalie. You know, you're definitely one of my favorites as well.
Natalie: Oh, I know you guys literally are the best. I think it's Dr. Adams who says it's like a "boutique birth experience." And that's what I feel you guys really do. You try everything you can to just make it a unique experience where you're not just a number, you're not just somebody showing up, and you're not just gonna be a run-of-the-mill patient. So you guys really care, and I love that.
Dr. Marrow: You make the job easy. And we appreciate that more than anything—just the support that you provide. And you know, we're all out working to increase the experience and safety with birth, and always, always grateful to see you in the room.
Natalie: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Well, today we're kind of touching on a subject that is not talked about a lot, honestly. And that's when a mom should start paying attention to her baby's position. You know, if a mom hears at her 20-week anatomy scan, "Oh, your baby's breech," and mom hears that and she might be freaking out, but when is a time that's appropriate to start cluing into, okay, what position is my baby in? And when should that start getting on her radar?
Dr. Marrow: Great question. So in the first and second trimester, it's a swimming pool. Baby has, you know, full lay of the land and is free to move around as it desires. We really start to take interest in fetal position at about 32 weeks with just kind of feeling around and seeing where things are, maybe recommending some different positioning to help.
At 36 weeks, we really need to know the position of baby, whether that be through ultrasound or with fetal mapping, so that we can make plans for ECV by 37 weeks. So certainly we should be placing hands on mamas by 35, 36 weeks so that we know what we're dealing with moving into the late third trimester.
Natalie: Yeah, that's awesome. And there's a tool called Belly Mapping that Spinning Babies teaches, and I put that on my clients' radar just as a fun activity to start doing at like 32 weeks and on. And I mean really before then, if you're trying to feel that baby. Yeah, they're moving so much, they have so much room to move around. So yeah, that's really, really helpful.
So when it comes to mom realizing, okay, my baby is in a breech presentation, a transverse presentation where they're laying completely sideways in the uterus—which, you know, transverse is impossible to deliver vaginally, a baby cannot go through the pelvis that way—or even something like a posterior presentation or sunny side up, what are some things that a mom can do when she's realized, okay, my baby is in one of these malpositions?
Dr. Marrow: So first we like to take kind of a holistic approach if we can, working with chiropractors to help realign the pelvis. Acupuncture and moxibustion have been shown to have some benefits. We try those things first. Once we realize that those things aren't being successful, there are a few other techniques that we do recommend for your breech baby.
We typically recommend Spinning Babies, which is a really neat program. But basically there are different positions that we ask for you to get in, including forward-leaning inversion, which is basically you standing on your head, and side-lying release, which is when we kind of lay you on your side with your left leg crossed over. And then rebozo can really be helpful. Rebozo is when you take a sheet or a long cloth and you put mom in knee-chest and sift baby to help disengage from the pelvis and then hopefully realign back in the right direction.
So those are some techniques we can use for breech babies. For babies that are OP—so head down but not really facing the right way, or sunny side up—there's something called the Miles Circuit. And again, there's open-knee chest where you are on your hands and knees with your bottom higher than your head, hopefully getting baby to disengage, followed by left lateral lying. And then some asymmetrical stepping or going up stairs or curb walking just to help baby reposition back into the pelvis in the right direction.
So those things we recommend particularly for a breech baby—you know, we try them up until the day of the ECV if you decide to move forward with that. An ECV is an external cephalic version where we manually will rotate your baby. And for your baby that's head down but perhaps asynclitic or OP, we ask that you do the Miles Circuit until you go into labor.
Natalie: Those are all things that I recommend to my clients as well. And there's a good handout that the Miles Circuit is available on the internet, but I'll just link a handout for that 'cause that is super helpful. I personally find it very uncomfortable, especially that first position to do the Miles Circuit. But if you're doing it correctly, it's kind of uncomfortable. I have had some clients that are like, "It's comfortable," and I'm like, "Okay, we might need to talk about that, because you're probably not doing it right."
It is very uncomfortable because you're putting so much of your weight forward. Really, if you have somebody helping you, like they have a sheet or a rebozo kind of helping you keep that position, that's like the only way I personally could ever do that first position for the Miles Circuit. Side-lying is the other one. Like people are like, "Oh, you know, I'm so comfortable." I'm like, "No, then you're not turned enough. You should be almost laying on your belly and just flip that leg over. This is not for comfort."
Dr. Marrow: I completely agree. Yeah. And so let's talk more about the ECV. I have personally witnessed you do a couple ECVs, and they're so—honestly, they're kind of exciting to watch. I know for mom, it's very intense. I personally have not had an ECV, but I've witnessed a handful. And the success rate is what, about 50%?
Dr. Marrow: Correct. Somewhere between 50 and 60%.
Natalie: Yeah. And I have personally seen, and this might also be what you've seen, it's usually more successful with mamas that this is not their first pregnancy. Usually the uterus has stretched before and it just has a little bit more room. Is that what you've seen as well?
Dr. Marrow: Exactly. The studies do indeed show that we're gonna be more successful in women who've had more babies and with the use of tocolytic agents or agents that relax the uterus, and also with the use of epidural. Smaller babies are easier to turn. Posterior placenta can make it a little bit easier just 'cause we don't have that cushion, you know, of the anterior placenta.
It can still be done with the anterior placenta, which is something that I think may be a miss. You know, people don't really think that we can, but we can still do it. It does make it harder though. And then maternal weight makes a difference. So it's gonna be a lot easier on women with lower BMI just 'cause we are able to get in and manipulate baby a little bit easier.
If your baby's transverse, half the work is already done. So if the baby can give us a little bit of tilt beforehand, it makes the turn a little bit easier. Those direct breech babies, you know, it's a full turn.
Natalie: And also to mention, like you had mentioned at the top as an option, is the Spinning Babies. If baby does not turn with the Spinning Babies techniques used, that increases the chance that the ECV would be successful because the Spinning Babies kind of catchphrase that she uses is like we're creating room for the baby to be able to find that spot. Like baby can only go where it has the room, right? And if baby doesn't want to flip, there's always a reason for that. So, you know, even trying those techniques ahead of time are going to increase the likelihood that the ECV will be successful.
And I've witnessed I think one ECV with an epidural and yeah, it is really helpful. Otherwise, it's like going into labor—the intensity of that sensation. And that's really why a lot of my clients will still ask me to come to an ECV, is because I'm gonna be there to kind of just help them relax, breathe. We're gonna do some of those releases just before the ECV is attempted, just to give the body and the mind the best chance to just allow it to happen.
Dr. Marrow: Exactly. The epidural isn't necessarily magical, but what it does is create comfort for the patient. It really is an intense experience to have an ECV. It's an intense experience. We do have probably about 50% of our patients do them with epidurals and 50% that don't.
Those who have had some sort of birth prep do so much better because they're able to keep those ab muscles relaxed, and that's what's really important. You respond appropriately when there's a large human pressing on your belly. The ability to be able to relax during this procedure is so important 'cause we don't have a lot of time to work. And we don't always have the opportunity to go back and put that epidural in later.
And so I always, always give a little tester push as I'm doing my initial assessment and I'm like, okay, if this is not comfortable for you, then you should consider getting an epidural. So I do try and just kind of give them—I give them about 50%, and 50% is a lot. And if 50% is not working out, then epidural is an option. That doesn't mean that you can't then go on to have an unmedicated birth, but this procedure is different. This is different.
Natalie: It's not a contraction. It is a manual manipulation.
Dr. Marrow: This is not a, you know, a 32-second contraction that you can then have a five-minute break. This is constant activity for several minutes on your abdomen. So it is not—I always tell people there's no reward for suffering. And ultimately our goal is to get you your unmedicated birth later. So let's do it.
Natalie: Yeah, definitely. The other benefit too, if you do decide to get the epidural, is if there is some emergency where baby is not responding well to the ECV and you need to rush back for a C-section, you already have an epidural in place. You have a much better chance that you will be awake during that C-section than if it's a true emergency—you're gonna go under general anesthesia if it's truly a medical emergency.
Dr. Marrow: Right. And as we'll probably get into, while that is a risk, it's exceptionally rare. And so while, you know, that shouldn't be the primary reason, it is something to consider. But by and large, these procedures are very, very safe. And I've been doing this for—I think I counted 15 years the other day, which is crazy—and I've never had one result in an emergency that required a cesarean delivery as its outcome.
So still a very safe option. We do see drops in the baby's heart rate during the ECV, which almost always will resolve once we discontinue the procedure. That doesn't mean that anything bad is happening—just, you know, baby's telling us "I don't like that position. Let's go back to where we were." And it doesn't always mean that we need to stop. We just may need to adjust what we're doing.
Natalie: Yeah, that's awesome. What other risks are important for a mom to consider if she's in this position of possibly needing to entertain this as an intervention for her baby?
Dr. Marrow: So we talked about the heart rate changes. That is the most common risk. Almost always they resolve once the procedure is discontinued. There is a very low risk of placental abruption, breaking your water, and umbilical cord prolapse—less than 1% for all of those. And then we talked about the risk of the heart rate not coming back up and ending up in an emergency C-section. Again, exceptionally, exceptionally rare. By and large it's a very, very safe procedure.
Natalie: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think there's a lot of moms that, you know, hear about the intensity of the procedure and they're like, "I don't want to go through that." And that is absolutely every woman's right to make that choice. But for the moms that are willing to kind of just wrap their head around that experience, what the known risks are, and then just evaluate—is attempting this worth attempting a vaginal delivery? Potentially. Hopefully.
But what about if the procedure is unsuccessful? Most providers at this point are going to schedule a c-section. I wanted to just hear your thoughts on this, but why is it that most providers, OB-GYNs specifically, are recommending a C-section for babies who are not head down? And are there ever any situations where a vaginal delivery might still be an option, even if baby is breech?
Dr. Marrow: So that's a great question. Up until about 2002, vaginal breech deliveries were a lot more common. In 2002, there was a very large study that took place—or it was actually like a retrospective multicenter study where they looked at a bunch of breech deliveries that were vaginal and then breech deliveries that were cesarean. And by and large, the risk of perinatal mortality, neonatal mortality, and significant morbidity or injury to the baby was significantly lower in the cesarean delivery group.
Those numbers were about fourfold different. So there was about a fourfold increase of poor outcome with vaginal breech deliveries rather than cesarean deliveries. And because of that, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists then recommended that the vaginal breech delivery was no longer an appropriate way to manage the breech baby.
So since the early 2000s, there's really been a significant shift to delivering babies that are breech via cesarean delivery. And unfortunately not a significant shift to trying to turn those babies. So we are seeing more cesarean as a result of that.
There are scenarios where a vaginal delivery of a breech baby may be appropriate. Certainly in a mom who is a multipara or who has had multiple babies, a baby that is on the smaller side, and having your baby with a provider who is comfortable with breech vaginal deliveries. And this should be a planned scenario. This is not something that should just happen on the fly.
I always tell our mamas, if a provider tells you that they're not comfortable doing something, they mean that. And sometimes we'll see situations where people are like, "I'm just gonna show up in labor." And I don't recommend that because if someone tells you they're not comfortable with something, they mean that. And there can be significant poor outcomes with vaginal breech deliveries if you aren't well skilled in doing so.
And so there are certainly case-by-case basis where a breech baby can be born vaginally, but it's something that you should talk about very early on with your provider and make sure that they're comfortable and well skilled in that technique.
Natalie: I've also heard that if you're having twins or multiple babies where maybe that's also an appropriate situation if one of the first is head down and then you—the subsequent maybe is breech.
Dr. Marrow: That is a little bit different because those babies are typically much smaller. And so the risks are so much less with the smaller twin baby that many providers will feel comfortable delivering the twin B breech but not a singleton, you know, eight-pound breech baby.
Natalie: Yeah, my best friend was actually born vaginally breech back in like the early nineties, and I was talking with her mom about the birth because it, you know, back then was kind of starting to fade out. Her provider told her, "Yeah, you were probably one of my last vaginal breech deliveries." But I just thought that was so fascinating that, you know, I knew somebody personally—my best friend—that her mom had that experience.
Dr. Marrow: I trained in 2009 to 2013. So that was kind of where breech vaginal term deliveries were really falling out of favor. And certainly now, because the recommendation is to not even attempt it anymore, we aren't training people to do them. And so yes, while it is unfortunate that it is not necessarily an option in a lot of places these days, people aren't trained to do it, and so they shouldn't even be attempting to do it.
Natalie: Yeah. And you know, you're somebody who has also been through your own birth challenges. I don't know if you want to go into a little bit of that. But now you're helping other women, you know, navigate theirs. The way Full Circle practices is that midwives are handling those low-risk moms, low-risk births and pregnancies, and then the OBs are there to step in if and when needed. You know, when things just are getting a little bit more complicated or complex throughout the pregnancy or the birth experience. But what advice would you give to a mama just to help her process the emotions that come up with a birth plan that is not really going according to plan? And I think just even your personal experience in that, I'm sure, informs how you support those mamas when they're in that situation.
Dr. Marrow: Exactly. So a little bit about my backstory. As I mentioned, I started OB-GYN training in 2009. I had my first baby just out of residency, a new attending in 2014. As someone who had delivered hundreds upon hundreds of babies, I thought I had it all figured out. I'm an OB-GYN—I know everything. I'm young, I'm spunky.
I ended up developing gestational diabetes in pregnancy and needed an induction at 39 weeks. What I actually had was a lot of birth fear because of my training, to be honest. Birth is beautiful, but I don't always get to be a part of the beautiful things. And so I carried a lot of birth fear into my experience.
I went in for my induction. I had my epidural before I was two centimeters. I was bed bound. I did not move. I arrested and ended up with a cesarean section for my first baby.
Second time around, I met my good friend and now partner Dr. Adams, who was very clear that I was not doing that again and put me in touch with some wonderful doulas here in town who worked with me with hypnobirthing and with birth support. Second time around, same medical problems, same induction situation, completely different preparation. I was able to have a successful trial of labor, a successful VBAC with my second baby who was bigger than my first baby. And I know that was because I was prepared rather than really succumbing to the fear of birth like I did the first time.
In terms of my piece of advice, definitely create the experience that you desire, but be flexible within that. I think one of the first lessons of parenting comes through pregnancy and labor. Nothing is predictable. Set yourself up with a team that you know has your best interests in mind with your doula and your delivery team, and ensure that they're gonna work to make things as beautiful as possible, but also be flexible as things change.
Particularly as it relates to kind of baby positioning—when you do everything that you can and your baby is still breech or OP or whatever, that is not failure. That is a change of plans and that's okay. Birth is beautiful regardless of the route. And I think when we become more accepting of that, everybody ends up in a healthier space afterwards.
Natalie: That's beautiful advice. And the phrasing that I use a lot is we get to steward the things that we can, we get to just do the best we can with our head knowledge, our heart posture, the physical preparation, but that none of those things guarantee any sort of outcomes because it doesn't. There is so much more that's out of your control.
And when you tie your worth to the outcome of your birth, as if that's a reflection of like your strength or your preparation or whatever—no, like it's a complete utter lie. And I think that when you can make that disconnect in your heart and mind of, "I cannot control the outcome, but I can control these little things—the foods I'm eating, am I taking care of myself? Am I making sure I'm not stressed out of my mind my whole pregnancy?" Just doing whatever you can in the capacities that you know you can control, and the rest of it you give to God and you give it to your providers who, again, have to be in your corner.
And I think that's one of the first things that I go over with my doula clients is I ask them, "Who's your provider? How did you choose them? Do you feel like they're gonna support you with the type of birth experience you're hoping to have?" And a lot of the time my clients are going with you guys because you are aligned with what they're hoping to accomplish, especially if they're involving a doula in the team. Because there is, like you're saying, that collaboration there. So it's like we're all working towards the same goal. So yeah, who you're choosing as your birth team, especially your provider, is huge. So thank you for sharing that, 'cause it is so true.
What would you want every pregnant mama to know about fetal positioning? What encouragement or practical advice would you share?
Dr. Marrow: Firstly, make sure position is being evaluated. Your provider should be putting hands on you somewhere into the third trimester to see which way baby is lying. If your baby is breech early on, ask your OB if they're comfortable with ECVs. If not, and that's something you think you'll be interested in, it may be worth putting some feelers out and seeing if you can find the provider that is comfortable.
If your baby is OP or breech, believe in the science. Those exercises that we give you do work, but you have to do them. So help us help you. If your ECV fails or you decide against an ECV, delivery is at 39 weeks. We don't want to be sneaky or just come into labor or push back the cesarean because coming into the hospital with a breech baby in labor is chaotic. You will not get the birth you desired, and the outcome may be traumatic or even worse—there may be a poor outcome.
So if you've done all the things and we've decided that the cesarean is the next move, it's 39 weeks—please meet us there on that day. And like I said, if your provider tells you they're not comfortable with something, they mean that. So honor that and develop a plan that works best for everyone involved.
Natalie: Great advice. Yeah. And again, going back to not seeing a cesarean as a failure of a birth—just because that was probably not your plan, a means that you did not have your baby, does not mean that you didn't do all the things correctly to have the outcome you wanted or anything like that. Those things are not tied to you because those are things out of your control.
So I just—I love the practical advice that you shared, but also bringing up those reminders that you can do all the things and still not have that vaginal delivery, but that does not mean your birth is not going to be beautiful and you're gonna meet that precious baby that you have been working so hard for and have a beautiful experience and outcome.
And I love that there's a trend now with starting to move towards the gentle cesarean. And so that's another good question to ask about early on. What is your approach to the cesarean delivery? What things do you offer in the operating room? Because, you know, in the unlikely but possible event you do end up there, you do want to understand what your experience will be in the operating room as well.
Dr. Marrow: Yes. I'm so glad you're bringing that up because at this point, I think you guys are the only provider here in Jacksonville that is offering a gentle cesarean. Can you tell the mama who's listening about what that involves? And if that's not something that her provider is aware of, what are some reasonable things that she can maybe ask for to accommodate a more gentle cesarean approach?
Dr. Marrow: It's all about creating a calming experience in the operating room. The operating room can be very scary, very cold, and so whenever possible, we try and increase the comfort. We turn the lights down low in the operating room so that we're just operating with the spotlight. It just creates a nice mood. We allow our mamas to bring music in. So whatever playlist you created for your vaginal birth, bring it. We love a good time. We love a calm time. We love a good, like, "It's a birthday party. Let's enjoy it."
We have clear drapes that allow for first looks whenever baby is delivered. We're able to do delayed cord clamping with cesarean. And once a baby is assessed and evaluated, then baby is brought back to mama for skin-to-skin for the duration of the procedure. We can also do breastfeeding in the operating room as well—just really increasing the bonding from the very start, just like a vaginal delivery so that we don't lose that golden hour.
Natalie: Yeah, and you also allow not only the partner back—the husband, the dad—you also allow the doula to come along, which is very unique.
Dr. Marrow: So it is. It's such a joy to be able to support my clients when they choose to go with you guys, because I'm like, I know that there's no boundaries that are reasonable where I'm not going to be allowed to support you. And that goes back to that experience that you don't feel alone. You don't feel like because you're going a different route with your birth, that that means that you're not worthy of the support and the encouragement during that birth experience. So I always love that you guys allow that.
Something that I actually—I just recorded an interview and we were talking about vaginal seeding. Is this something that you guys have ever done with your clients where you're just helping the baby get the introduction of the vaginal microbiome in a cesarean delivery where obviously they're not going the vaginal route?
Dr. Marrow: Currently it is not something that we offer. There is no standard protocol with ACOG or the hospital, and so we cannot facilitate that experience. However, it is your baby, so whatever you decide to do with your baby, it's between you and your baby.
Natalie: Gotcha. Well, thank you so much again for coming on and just sharing your advice and your encouragement. This was such an amazing conversation, and I know it's gonna be so helpful to so many mamas.
Dr. Marrow: Thank you so much, Natalie.
